Geoffrey Bellman Interview. Extraordinary Groups. Female interviewer. Leading a successful group or being a member of one can be an extremely rewarding experience, but what is it that makes a group extraordinary. This is what Geoffrey Bellman and Kathleen Ryan seek to answer in their book Extraordinary Groups. The book and the model it presents is based on a series of interviews that the authors conducted with individuals about their experiences of group participation and leadership. In this interview, Geoffrey Bellman discusses the ideas and principles at the heart of the extraordinary groups model and provides some insight into how they could be applied in the workplace. Geoff begins by providing us with an overview of what an extraordinary group is. Geoffrey Bellman. An extraordinary group achieves outstanding results. That’s just one facet but I want to emphasize that. Outstanding results, tangible, intangible results, respected by the larger organization and especially results respected by the group itself. And then secondly, individually or collectively, the members of the group experience a profound shift in how they see their world. So extraordinary groups are not just about doing, not just about feeling, but about seeing how people see the world. They see it differently as a result of the way they work together and what they accomplish together. People feel highly and positively energized by the group experience that they have. They say this repeatedly and they say that that’s part of what distinguishes this extraordinary group experience from others that they have had. If people do not see the world differently as a part of being in this group, the chances are it wasn’t very extraordinary. Female interviewer. In their book, Bellman and Ryan identify eight indicators of extraordinary groups. Here Geoff talks us through the first two of these indicators. compelling purpose and shared leadership. Geoffrey Bellman. Everybody in the group knows the purpose, not just the designated leader. If you and I are in a group together, I can leave the group, go off and do some of my work and you will have complete confidence that I know what our larger group purpose is and I, in turn, will have great confidence that you know what the group purpose is. Then the third thing would be, each person in the group has either contributed to the formation of that purpose or just has an immense buy in to it. They find it personally compelling. Because the purpose is so compelling, the need to constantly turn to the leader is less so everybody in the group is exhibiting leadership characteristics, everybody in the group feels like I can initiate at any time when I have got something of value to bring to this group. It is characteristic of groups to manage themselves in a somewhat chaotic fashion, not always turning to the structure that the leader provides. Female interviewer. Next, Geoff discusses the third indicator which in the book is termed just enough structure. Geoffrey Bellman. With extraordinary groups, they structure as a last resort. When their organic nature doesn’t provide the structure that they need, they will build a structure to get to where they want to go next and then when they get there, they return to a more organic state. Female interviewer. The fourth indicator is full engagement. Here Geoff explains what this means. Geoffrey Bellman. People are passionately involved. People are emotionally involved. They bring their entire selves to the group, even to the detriment of other relationships in their lives, like family relationships. Because of their high dedication to the group, their full engagement there, that can get in the way of other things. Female interviewer. According to Bellman and Ryan, extraordinary groups typically welcome the differences that may exist between group members. Geoffrey Bellman. Extraordinary groups are much better than most of us at embracing differences. When they see a difference emerge between a couple of members of the group, other members of the group are saying yes, they are encouraging them, they want to see the differences brought out and explored. Female interviewer. The sixth indicator of an extraordinary group is the unexpected learning that members experience.
Geoffrey Bellman. They come expecting to learn something about their work, their approach to it, but they didn’t expect to learn about groups, for example, or they didn’t expect to learn that groups can lead themselves in ways quite different from the traditional, or they didn’t expect to develop skills within this group that would be useful in their next group or in their life. And then there is also, combined with that is a kind of delight. Isn’t this wonderful. Female interviewer. Strengthened relationships between group members is the seventh indicator of an extraordinary group. As Geoff explains here, this can sometimes lead to friendships forming within the group. Geoffrey Bellman. One of the best places to make friends is by doing compelling work together. I was part of a group, have been part of a group that started over thirty years ago and meets quarterly. Frankly, I wouldn’t have picked all of the members of that group, I think others would say the same thing. I would have chosen different people, people wouldn’t have chosen me. But over years of meeting quarterly, we have developed very strong relationships, often tight friendships, by doing work together four times a year. Female interviewer. The eighth and final indicator of an extraordinary group is the great results it can achieve. Geoffrey Bellman. Group after group after group that we interviewed reported really great results in a tangible way that’s respected by the larger world, but the thing that the group members valued more than the tangible results, were the intangible results, what they had built with each other. They saw the tangible results, kind of like your pulse is a measure of blood flow and vitality, but it’s not the vitality itself, so they saw tangible results in relation to intangible results. People can talk years later about the great intangible results they got that bonded this group together. They value those intangible results so much. Female interviewer. In Extraordinary Groups, Bellman and Ryan identify three sets of underlying needs that drive the behaviors that are exhibited within extraordinary groups. Here Geoff talks us through each of these sets of needs and the creative dynamics that exist within them.
Geoffrey Bellman. We really believe that people have a need to group so groups are a natural unit of work and within that natural unit of work we are meeting different sets of needs. One set is the self. I have needs within myself. I have needs to understand myself and to accept myself and where I am right now in my life. On the other side of me is the self that has potential. The acceptance of self and the self- potential in this model form a leaf and between the two sides of this leaf there is a creative dynamic. As I look at myself and who I am right now in relation to who I want to be, that difference motivates me, causes me to learn, move from where I am toward my potential. Female interviewer. The next set of needs in the model relate to the needs of the group and these needs are termed purpose and bond. Geoffrey Bellman. Just as with the self, we have got this creative tension between the bond, the connections that create a shared sense of belonging for people in the group, and the purpose, the reason why we come together. What’s the glue that keeps us together. That’s the bond. And the other side is, what are we going to do as a group to make a difference in the world, leading into the third leaf. Female interviewer. Impact and reality form the final set of needs in Bellman and Ryan’s model. Geoffrey Bellman.	So we have got the individual who has come into the group and now the group is going out into the world, their world. So, the first side of that leaf is the reality piece, being clear about your world and what it is. And the other side of that leaf has to do with impact, and that is how are you going to change your world. So reality is understanding it and impact is making a difference in it. Again, that creative dynamic between the two. And that dynamic in that world leaf combines with the dynamic within the group leaf and the dynamic within the individual leaf. Female interviewer.	In the book, Bellman and Ryan suggest that one of the key characteristics that separate extraordinary groups from ordinary groups is the transformational change that group members experience as a result of their participation. Here Geoff explains what this means. Geoffrey Bellman. When an individual or a group experience this transformation, that is really moving to a new level of working together, they typically would say. We feel highly energized, lots of energy of all kinds, but emotional energy is really important to us. We feel connected, connected to ourselves, connected to each other, connected to our purpose, connected to the world that we are part of. We feel hopeful about what can be accomplished for ourselves, for the group, in the world. And we feel changed, as a result of what we have done together, as a result of how we feel right now, we feel changed, we feel like we are in a new place. So energized, connected, hopeful and changed, those words you will find now at the center of this model because those words, those feelings are the outcomes of the creative dynamic between acceptance and potential, the dynamic between bond and purpose, the dynamic between reality and impact. Those creative dynamics in each of those fields result in action and when it is successful and transformative, these great feelings. Female interviewer. Next, Geoff explains how these ideas might be applied in the workplace.
Geoffrey Bellman. Leaders, it is not first of all I am primarily about you, it is about what you are participating in, what you are helping create in a group so that people choose to coalesce in a group around a shared purpose. Now how do you do that. Well, first of all, quit turning your questions on yourself about what you could do better and start turning your questions outwards, paying attention to what is going on in the group that you are attempting to lead right now. Frequently in the extraordinary groups that we interviewed, leaders do not lead in a way that fits with what the sponsoring organization asks of them. No, typically, the sponsoring organization is asking for traditional, heroic, focused on the leader, leadership, and typically in the extraordinary groups that we talked to, leaders lead in a way that engages people, everybody in ownership of the purpose, that engages everybody in sharing in the role of seeing that this group moves forward. You can relax into the group when you have got one that’s extraordinary. confident that the best ideas, the best way forward will emerge from the group and it is not all your responsibility to decide that. It is very straightforward when you have incorporated the notion that you are going to look at the group through this model, when you decide, I am going to use that model as a lens through which I see the group, then behaviors naturally emerge from that when you see through that model. How do you do that. Well, in the book, hopefully, we help you with ways of doing that. Typically, in leadership we focus on tools to techniques, methods, things that you would do with a group. If you focus on just what you do with the group and not how you see it, if you focus on defining roles for members of the group, if you focus on just on outcomes of the group, if you focus on behaviors alone without paying attention to the underlying motivations, it becomes very difficult. Female interviewer. Finally, Geoff considers whether an ordinary group might be able to take steps to become extraordinary. Geoffrey Bellman. You can put things in place that make it more likely that it will happen. Every group is not going to become an extraordinary group. Most groups will be ordinary. But even leaders who are part of, or members who are part of rather ordinary groups right now, can learn from what extraordinary groups do and bring that to their ordinary groups. You can still learn behaviors that make it more likely that people will act on those underlying needs that they have in a constructive fashion in your group. Female interviewer. Thank you for listening to our interview with Geoffrey Bellman. on extraordinary groups.

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